March 6, 2006
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"(Y)ou can take any liberty and abuse and stretch it until it becomes license, a grotesque perversion of what it was meant to be. It's the sort of thing that made Ben Franklin say, "Only a moral and virtuous people are capable of freedom; the more corrupt and vicious a people becomes, the more it has need of masters."
Think about that a minute; "only a moral and virtuous people are capable of freedom." Why? Because moral people, guided by principles like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," will naturally be concerned for the welfare and liberties of their neighbors and allow the societal boundaries to work. And "virtuous" citizens will respect truth and the sensitivities of other citizens. An ingrained measure of such virtue is what the Bill of Rights took for granted.
But conversely, self-centered and corrupt people will incessantly gnaw at the liberties and guidelines that discipline and restrict and bring fairness to all, to gain advantage for themselves. And, when challenged, they'll duck behind the "liberties" they've mishandled – even declaring that they are champions of those freedoms they are unconscionably abusing.
Liberties, raped and stretched and abused, become license."
Pat Boone - recording artist, television star
Comments (9)
awesome post jim. i've always thought that this was the biggest factor in practical anarchism. good people make good anarchy. bad people make chaos.
"Oh, judge, your damn laws: the good people don't need them and the bad people don't follow them so what good are they?" -- Ammon Hennacy
i wouldnt want to live in this present day society without laws, because yeah... people would abuse their freedoms.
I would expect that from Pat Boone, you know? I wanted to come and see how you are and instead I am simply offended. I do not think preachers should preach politics and I do not think politicians should preach God. I think about those great Christian principals that cause people to kill gays, protest at their funerals, and oppose gay marriage, trying to discriminate against a group because of a bible quote they hide behind. It is simply a matter of civil rights. I am saddened that the government is trying to make us a theocracy.
BTW, our Founding Fathers, including Ben Franklin, were most certainly not Christians.
Actually our founding fathers hated Christianity. Here is what some of them had to say:
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"The Christian God can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, evil and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed, beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. The are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-- James Madison
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"
-- Thomas Jefferson
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I totally agree that religious fanatics are more corrupt than an atheist could ever be.
Audious!
Matt Newcomb
From: "Positive Atheism"
To: "Ward M. Newcomb, MD"
Subject: Re: FORUM:_Time_To_Stop_Being_Polite_To_Religion__8654
Date: February 09, 2002 10:05 PM
The Founders and their generation came fresh from witnessing, first-hand, the destruction that is tyrannical government exploiting religion for its own ends and greedy, clannish religion invoking the power of government to enforce its policies of favoritism with the edge of the sword. It's easy to see that the Founders saw the separation of religion from government as essential to human Liberty. It's also easy to see how many of the Founders would tend to "throw the baby out with the bath water" when it comes to any and all expressions of religion.
Since then, the effects of the Age of Enlightenment, still in progress during the American Revolution, have had a chance to temper religion. Time has also had a chance to fade and even erase the cultural memories of just how brutal those times were. So brutal were they that revolution after revolution systematically threw off yoke after yoke and essentially changed how the world allows governments to conduct the affairs of nations and municipalities. Similar changes occurred in the way religious groups allow their clergy to handle their ecclesiastical affairs. In fact, a lot of what the Founders complained about in religion just does not happen today: their words seem strange to our ears, because we have never witnessed religious groups doing what the people had, for generations, taken for granted, what the Founders finally faced up to, shouting "No more! No more!"
This is what I tried (in futility) to point out in my most recent editorial column, "But We Can't Even See What's Wrong." Perhaps in another year or two, I'll have given this concept enough thought to be able to describe it in English, but for now I can but grope for the words to describe the difference between what they went through and what we don't go through, why a society that is for the most part oblivious to history cannot see the potential dangers in such policies such as President Bush's "Faith-Based initiative." This blindness even goes so far as to prevent some from seeing how we could even be offended by their talk, mush less frightened.
How anyone can take offense at your post is beyond me, and proves the point you are making. No one cares if I'm offended, because I disapprove of hateful and malignant actions, or the celebrat of things I believe are wrong.
Wanted to stop by and say hello. I'm finally getting back to blogging on Xanga after a couple weeks of catching up on other things.
Faith
Hi, I am glad you understand what our forefathers wanted. Unfortunately, many do not. They truly believe they can impose their morals on the country and all the states. Even California denied gays the right to be married. And yes, I know that Pat Boone is an entertainer. Sure I remember him....I was born in 67. However, I also know that Pat Boone is a born again Christian. Which is why I would expect that from him. I also know that dingusting is a Christian. The way the government is going right now is really a sore spot for me. How do YOU feel about gay rights or abortion rights for that matter?
Yes, the tree of knowledge was placed in the garden of eden but by God and yes God told Adam & Eve they must not eat of the fruit of knowledge and yes Eve disobeyed God and ate of the fruit following the temptation of satan. All knowledge comes from God, nothing happens unless God allows it. We there for were given the choice to know both good and evil because the fruit of knowledge from the tree was eaten by Adam & Eve. However we are too blame for our sin's not Adam & Eve, we have the knowledge to know good and evil and to reject evil we can not blame our sin's on others. God has allowed us that choice. We were given the freedom to make that choice, we do not sin because Adam & Eve ate the fruit from the tree of life that released us to know both evil and good but it doesn't excuse us from doing both. Accepting Jesus as our Savior saves us from sin but we must follow in his foot steps it doesn't mean we can go on and sin. Have a good day.
How true....How's Korea? I haven't been around for awhile....Your past posts makes me wonder if Teaching abroad is what I should be doing.....Hope all is good with you! 'til the next
It is your utopia because you are assuming the bible is the word of God and we are made in his image. I keep telling you that I do not believe that. I am not sure what we are to God, but I don't see that our actions, as compared to other creatures raises us above them. I would ask that you take a view of the past centruy and ask if we are in in a position to be special. I am not going to go back and forth on you with this. Also, how many different cultures have been destroyed by missionaries and disease brought by the white man? People should be let be. I am not concerned if I am special in God's eyes or not. God is something human brains may not ever be able to understand or put into words. Religions are an attempt to understand death.
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